Photo: Joel Fraser
Over the past few seasons, Dinosaurs Will Die has seemingly exploded. The boards are popping up in shops, edits and more importantly, under the feet of actual snowboarders everywhere. Building a snowboard brand was never an easy feat, but in a changing world with a changing climate and a dubious economy, it seems impossible. Don’t tell Jeff Keenan that though. The Vancouver-based pro snowboarder turned business man has a plan, a vision, and an army of rats ready to help DWD flourish. We sat him down to find out more.
Brooke: We were talking earlier about how we’re sort of at the age where normal people stop snowboarding, or get distracted from snowboarding I should say – have families, get a job. Does it seem to you like snowboarding is becoming less popular, or is that just the age we’re at and there’s a new generation that’s just as stoked as ever? Or do you think that it’s not refreshing like it used to?
Jeff: Two years ago, I’d agree that we’re just getting older, that people who grabbed on to snowboarding in the 90s are growing out of it. But now there’s stuff that is rejuvenating interest for riders our age. Snowboarding is still young in a sense, we are at the bottom of the first life cycle in the business model. With this I feel we have been taking the steps to look at our past, what made us want to start, who were the pros, what boards were they riding, can we use any of this to help market to the youth? With this I feel we were fighting for our legends, in skate and surf legends are a integral part of the community, in snowboarding I feel we were on a path of who’s the new kid and what is going to be the trick of the year, we lost sight of why we really got into this. It has also put snowboarding to elitist level, almost unattainable for youth.
We had all these snowboarders that should have been our legends but we kicked them out, and hung them to dry. We didn’t support them when they got older and in many cases we didn’t have them involved in our community. And then in the past 3 years I’d say finally say it’s clicked over. People care about Jamie (Lynn) and what Jamie’s doing and Iguchi and what Iguchi’s doing, even what Roach is doing. He came back strong and it’s awesome to see. So now there is this resurfacing of riders we looked up to when we were young, the thing is there are a lot of people my age that still want to see these guys ride, and that is a marketing tool. On a media standpoint it’s hard to find media that appeals to our demographic.
Brooke: As a thirty-something what kind of media do you think would appeal to that older generation?
Jeff: When I think about who I watch skating, I don’t watch Nyjah. I watch guys like Dan Drehobl, A.V.E & Reynolds and anyone who skates fast and has that 90/00 flair to them. Even look at Girl or Chocolate, even through it’s mainstream skate, there’s guys on that team that are a lot older than I am and they are at the top of their game. I look up to that. Then when I think about that in snowboarding, there’s not many older riders that have the chance to stay in it filming and shooting. I like to ride street, powder and rip around mountains, and it’s hard to find that media of people my age that ride the same stuff I do. For some reason we have this weird thing where you get old and you ride powder. I don’t know a lot of thirty-somethings that ride street.
Brooke: Well because it hurts less.
Jeff: Yeah, but you don’t need to hit the gangliest rails. You can be creative in the streets, that’s what I like about it. Don’t get me wrong I like riding powder as much as I can, that’s where my roots are, but I also like being in the street and you just don’t have to hit rails to be in the street.
Brooke: Yeah you don’t get that in the coverage. Street coverage is so gnarly, but it’s possible to just ride in the streets, to just go do it.
Jeff: Yeah.
Brooke: And not buy a lift ticket.
Jeff: Exactly.
Dropping. photo: Leanne Pelosi
Brooke: I think snowboarding media is great, obviously, but I think most people who snowboard don’t even know snowboard media exists.
Jeff: No, which is kind of messed up. I don’t follow everything that comes out in snowboarding … A group of my friends surf more then snowboard now and they follow surf media religiously. Then I have friends that just skateboard and they don’t even look at skate media. So I think it is all over the place. I personally look at a lot of skate and surf stuff, and you just see how they are approaching new media. You don’t see a new skate or surf video come out then release full parts online. In snowboarding, it’s messed up that you buy videos now and then a week later all the parts come out online. It’s good for the sites that host them, however it delegitimizes the video production companies’ platform.
Snowboarding is my job, but my job isn’t really on the Internet so I don’t have the need to look at it all the time. But when I’m halfway through the day and I’m having a coffee or drinking a beer I’ll go on a snowboard site and try to catch up. I find I just skip so much of the media. It is fucked up how much is just thrown at the ‘net with out a plan behind it. For instance, I just saw the Iguchi pro model thing. The launch had a video I watched like 2 seconds then fast forwarded and watch 2 seconds in the middle and there’s old clips of him that are rad, I was like whoa that’s cool but for some reason I don’t buy into the, “this guy’s older and selling to my demographic.” The release video has some new footage and a small retrospect, and an explanation of the board, however it didn’t interest me much. I want to see a more direct push behind a release like that, something like– “Hey, I haven’t filmed a full part in a while and I’m gonna film a full part and not tell anyone about it and my sponsor is gonna come out with a pro-model in conjunction with that part, these two things are gonna be just as good as any thing that has been released before.”
Brooke: That would be cool.
Jeff: It’s not there.
Brooke: I mean a lot of it is branding in that the way things are presented and it’s hard to present things in a way that it will appeal to everyone in snowboarding.
Jeff: Yeah.
Brooke: That’s another thing we were talking about, how different snowboarding is from place to place.
Jeff: I’ve always thought about each individual local surrounding, and how you are a product of your own environment. I’m from the city and how the people ride down here is very different to how people ride in Whistler, and it’s only two hours away. People that ride Whistler ride very differently then people from Utah, and these people are different from people who ride in Quebec. There are always copy cats of style, however you can usually see the true nature of a rider if you do a lap with them. It’s crazy because kids there can be kids that are in the streets of Minnesota or Quebec City that might not have even ridden a resort, so how they ride is going to be a true product of that urban environment. That spectrum is really different.
Brooke: Yeah it’s crazy. So how does the industry deal with that?
Jeff: People don’t think about it.
Whis love. photo: Leanne Pelosi
Brooke: You run a brand and do you guys think, okay well, we want to appeal to kids who ride resorts or we want to appeal to people who ride in the streets or we want to appeal to people in Europe or do you just want to appeal to everyone?
Jeff: No, we want to appeal to an attitude. It doesn’t matter where they ride or where they are from. You can look at it like a political standpoint too. If your Republican or Democrat you want to appeal to a certain kind of person, but you don’t really care if that guy’s a doctor or a gun salesmen. You don’t really care what they do, you care about their mindset. This is what Dinos is like, we don’t care if you ride powder or street, or if your from the city or mountain town. None of that matters, we just know people that are into our company have a like-minded attitude. This attitude is that you can be yourself, you can all be different, but you have a similar creative outlook. This outlook is one that makes you go out there, grind and dedicate to a passion.
Brooke: Yeah that makes sense. The world is always in transition, but seems very apparent right now. The weather is changing, the economy is changing, everything’s changing. How has that affected you guys?
Jeff: Since we are a two-person company, we are mobile. If you have a company with 30 employees your limited to what you can do and how versatile you are. If you have two people you can pretty much do whatever those two people want to do. You can move around, you can adapt and you can do it quickly. This quickness transcends every aspect of the company too. There’s all these companies out there that are to slow to react to the ever-changing snowboard world. They are so slow on identifying their key targets and they miss the boat, or they overshot this target and create an a product or marketing platform that is almost to broad for their initial goals. For Dinos we are trying to sell to snowboarders, we are not trying to reach out of this spectrum. However, if someone walking into a snowboard shop for their first time buys a Dino more times then not it is going to because of the graphic or the quality of our construction, not because of our backstory, and this we embrace as well.
Brooke: Do you guys aspire to grow the brand bigger?
Jeff: There’s growing the company and then there’s growing the reach of the company. If you’re talking units being sold, we obviously want to grow, in turn this allows the company to grow.
Brooke: What about company size? There’s 2 of you, do you want to hire more people?
Jeff: Well yeah, we need to. Because there’s a point in time the company becomes at full capacity, you can only do so much without sleeping. We do have an awesome rep force, these guys kill it they are truly dedicated to snowboarding, and we do have Matt Heneghan, who assists us with team and marketing. We apply innovative hardware and application in our technology to assist when we expand, however there is a point you need to have employees to take a piece of the workload.
One time this person gave us this graph that had sales units on the Y axis and core values on the X. All the major snowboard companies where laid out all over the graph. There weren’t many company in the right hand corner where sales and core values were high. They asked where do we want to be, and without thinking I pointed to the upper right hand side. The goal is to grow the company and at the same time staying true to our core values.
Brooke: Back to our changing world – it seems to me like everyone is moving to the city – nobody wants to be a farmer anymore, especially with the younger generation. That’s just what society is doing. How do you see that changing snowboarding and people’s interest in snowboarding?
Jeff: That is the way the world is going globally, urbanization, throughout the world everyone is migrating to cities and rural areas are being less populated. For the most part the rural living is dying and people are moving to a city to live. The cities are more glamorous – there are jobs, activities, events and communities that you don’t see in rural society. However, where urbanization lacks is the surroundings of nature and being outdoors. I truly feel that this contributes to the less youth moving to or out of mountain towns.
I’m lucky to live in Vancouver because if it snows on the mountains you see it from inside the city. We actually have this physical connection, it looks like you can reach out and grab the mountains. It becomes a part of your life because you see it everyday. However if you lived somewhere like Portland, Seattle or on the East Coast, you do not have this benefit. You to live in the city and go up to the hill, it becomes more of an activity then a lifestyle. The more people are moving from mountain towns and rural areas into cities, the more they start to disconnect from nature, the mountains, and in turn from snowboarding.
Scenes from Barrely and Event at Grouse. Photo: Joel Fraser
Brooke: Yeah I mean do you think that that migration is changing the status of snowboarding from a lifestyle sport to just a recreational activity?
Jeff: Yes, it is fully. One of the best parts of snowboarding is that you can be live anywhere in the world (that it snows) and you can be a part of this bigger community. When I started really getting into snowboarding in the early 90’s, when you drove to the resort you waved at anyone who had a snowboards strapped to their roof, and you probably knew them. I feel like 5 years ago, in snowboarding, you wouldn’t do that. But now I do it all the time, I wave or try and say hi to anyone that has a snowboard. If I see a snowboarder who is by themselves I’ll always talk to them, maybe that has to do with Dinos too, but I think it’s going back that way.
Brooke: Seems like it’s getting stronger because it’s getting smaller.
Jeff: Everything has a life cycle, business is a life cycle, everything has ups and downs and what once was is not gonna be. Snowboarding will constantly rejuvenate itself to be at a different standard then the past and right now it seems we have been on a downturn in the whole word, including snowboarding. In these times, Dinos has been on an upswing, we want to stay on the top of this upswing. We want to be one of the companies in the forefront when things come up. We want to be the company that snowboarders look at and believe in. A company that wears our values on our sleeves and constantly changes and adapts, a company that has a clear and definite reason for all products it makes.
Backside 7. Photo: Phil Tifo
Ok, so where to begin here?
But now there’s stuff that is rejuvenating interest for riders our age
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With this I feel we have been taking the steps to look at our past, what made us want to start, who were the pros, what boards were they riding, can we use any of this to help market to the youth? With this I feel we were fighting for our legends…
<<A lot of the legends walked away though because they were over it or injured and it simply wasnt part of the business model. Lynn–meth, Ranquet–blown hip, ROach blown knee + backhoe business and family. Kids these days are simply not interested in really anyone but some of the top top pros of the 90's. Surfers can still ride wave at pipe very well into their 40's, Curren can still ride a barrel in s sick way—in that way snowboarding and the other board sports are different.
I dont need to see Jamie or Roach ride again to get my self off the couch–that kind of "marketing" isnt gonna solve anything. Why do we need marketing? Why does your average snowboarder need to be marketed to—? So you can feel cool? Whats cool is riding–not the DINO board you just bought, or your rolled up Coal beanie with wayfarer-like glasses—none of it matter and never did! Did it even matter to you what you wore 2, 5 or 20 years ago? No. This is about an industry who has lost all the excess $$$ that was spent by people when they were flush with $$ and now the average joe doesnt go as much–hence a market downturn.
When I ride I still see mad stoke up there, people having a great time, core riders are gonna ride rain or shine, crap season or not. All this talk of a dying industry–people who ride 20X+ a year could give a rip about growing the industry so that your avg pro can make more than 30-40K a year. We want decent equip and snow–thats it. We dont need to be told that the industry is coming back–for us–IT NEVER LEFT. FOr those doing the talking–theiyre bummed that they have less spots to milk the snowboard world and have to join the corp. world—-and are rationalizing it with–oh, snowboarding is dying. Ha ha. What BS.
“I just finished an 8ball of meth and watched every Powder & Rails….I’M WORKED UP BITCH!!!”
^ And then i ask to myself, who the fuck are you and what have you done for snowboarding? Takes a Nort to know one :)-
For instance, I just saw the Iguchi pro model thing. The launch had a video I watched like 2 seconds then fast forwarded and watch 2 seconds in the middle and there’s old clips of him that are rad, I was like whoa that’s cool but for some reason I don’t buy into the, “this guy’s older and selling to my demographic.
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“For instance, I just saw the Iguchi pro model thing. The launch had a video I watched like 2 seconds then fast forwarded and watch 2 seconds in the middle and there’s old clips of him that are rad, I was like whoa that’s cool but for some reason I don’t buy into the, “this guy’s older and selling to my demographic.”
This guy claims he wants to support older riders so he can market to older riders and the youth…..but then claims his attention span wont last enough to watch a 2 min clip! Wut!? Apparently it was stimulating enough for him —-he needed a much more slick bit of production to garner his attention? How about just being stoked that Iguchi is “back”–although news flash–he never left–hes up there riding real mtns and guiding people.
–The bottom line is who cares that industry people are lamenting the downturn in the industry–for the vast majority of core riders—seasons will come and go, fashion trends will come and go, old and new riders will come and go—the constant will be the love for the mtns, the friends, the pow turns, the landed hits and the power slashes. Dont let anyone tell you the sport is dying–dying for marketing goons and the masses? Maybe.if thats the case GOOD! Less people means cheaper lift tickets, less time in line and MORE powder.
“Not done yet, I’m gonna get him now…oh that’s good, yup, oh yeah – I can’t wait to ride powder….o yeah thats good. I love my new Arbor Iguchi – fuck this guy, that promo made me tear up….fuck dinos…”
less people actually means less money to support the resorts and snowboarding industry that you know and love. The sad reality is that money is a necessary evil to keep resorts and brands alive, we need people to like snowboarding, we need people to put money into snowboarding in order to keep riding resorts. Less people means more expensive lift tickets, because less people are spending money on the resort and it takes money to run a resort.
supporting the resorts… yo maybe out troll way, but most resorts are making bank. resorts should be supporting us in turn we support them.
DeadRider, glad this conversation sparked you up.
First of all, I did not say snowboarding is dying in anyway. I do not think snowboarding will ever die, specially with passionate people like you in it. If there is a downturn in anything it doesn’t mean its dying, it means it’s a downturn and there will be a upturn as well. I agree with you 100% when you say “I ride I still see mad stoke up there, people having a great time, core riders are gonna ride rain or shine, crap season or not.” this is what I see too and it is why I am so dedicated to snowboarding.
Second thing, I have the utmost respect for Iguchi and his sponsors. I just stated there was not much out there for marketing to an older demographic, then I went on to to say that something didn’t interest me that much, and what would interest me is to see a full part in conjunction with the release of a pro-model (this is for anyone, not directed at Guch). I am one person and what I like you might not, and what I don’t like you might. I would love to see a new full part from anyone of my heros growing up? Wouldn’t you?
Snowboarding is NOT dying.
Dear Leeann,
You are a talented and beautiful woman. I would rub your feet and make you dinner every night forever. Good wine, chocolate, everything. Presents, puppies, ponies. Having said that, buy a flash and take a camera class.
Love forever and always,
Doober
Why didn’t Jeff have a part in End Search?
Hate to say it but Dead head is a bit right. Who cares about the hype of a dying “industry.” Gillian Yoder once said that he’d like to wave his arms and make the whole industry disappear! Todd Richards once said that snowboarding was 98% shit talking and 2% talent. There will always be snowboard companies to sell you some product. Will it really matter if there’s 1/2 the companies left? Do people really need to feel cool when they buy their cool new gear? You simply need, as dead said, equip. and snow. The rest of it is bullshit marketing to make you feel good to keep the huge consumption engine going. Consume, consume consume. It’s capitalism and consumption with a hipster beard and a leather jacket.
Well you’re not really looking into the future of snowboarding. Yes, you and your buddies will always find ways to keep snowboarding, but where will the next generation find their inspiration to switch a pair of skis for a snowboard? How will the snowboarding media/industry/marketing influence those choices.
A long time ago, specifically your generation, snowboarding was marketed like skateboarding was. Lot’s of marketing big names, lot’s of cool swag and shit, and lot’s of events to watch. Kids would beg their parents to take them to the hill, why?, because snowboarding wasn’t equivalent to a snow tubing trip back then. Here in Los Angeles, people aren’t going to Bear Mountain, Snow Summit, Mt. High, Mammoth Mountain, and June Mountain as frequently as they used to because snowboarding has degraded into a bucket list activity. Nobody goes on weekends, and nobody wants to ride for more than 4 days a season. Kids sit in the middle of the run so they can Snapchat/Instagram/Tweet that they’re so “shreddy”, return their rentals, and never come back. Look at skateboarding and surfing and how it’s marketed. They’ve created it into a lifestyle, and kid’s are willing to do it as much as possible. Kids at my local high school surf in the morning and after school. A huge majority hit the skatepark before they go home to finish homework. Events, Contests, etc. are announced everywhere, and thousands flock to these places to watch -> thus keeping the industry alive.
How does snowboarding stand apart from this? Core snowboarders make up about 20% of “snowboarders”. These 20% are the only ones who watch snowboarding videos, buy clothing from snowboarding brands, buy boards other than “burton”, and subscribe to magazines/visit sites like Yobeat. The other 80%? The only snowboarders they know are Shaun White, Torstein Horgmo, and Travis Rice. Go ask a random kid on a chairlift during winter break. I bet you 5 bucks his favorite snowboarder is one of those three. Ask him how frequently he goes snowboarding? “Oh, I’m just here for 4 days during winter break. I don’t know when I’ll be back again.” Snowboard companies should be working to grab this 80%. Maybe create a whole different category of riders. Huge reason why Torstein became so famous is because of his youtube channel. I don’t think releasing short edits that are fun to watch are as expensive as a full film. Just grab a camera, feature some good riding, play game of SNOW, do weird tricks, or bring in guests to ride. Anything, that will motivate the viewer to change his plans for Saturday.
Just my opinion. It hurts to see snowboarding slowly falling into the pits of niche, dead sports (roller blading, BMX, Scooters).
A good example of a program snowboarding should start? Look at the berrics. They release unique video series that are fun to watch. It doesn’t look like the typical trick video that Thrasher tends to often feature (no offense). It’s just an observation. I see more kids going on the berrics website than other skate websites.
Media has changed. Nobody buys DVD’s and Tapes anymore. If you want to attract the newer generation, cater to them. The older generations who love snowboarding will continue to love it.
Kids these days have short attention spans and are greedy to “show off”. How do you go about catering to their tastes? Change snowboarding media. Grow brand recognition through local events, free STICKERS (expensive for small companies, but probably the best extreme sports marketing strategy towards kids), send out cheaper goods (enough with the binding/snowboard/outerwear giveaways) for following the industry), etc.
One cool thing that some skateboard companies do is they reward kids for actually giving a shit about their company. First person to name the skate spot gets a pair of socks or a t shirt, name everyone on the Pro team at an event for a free deck, stick a sticker on your board for a free pair of sunglasses.
Marketing is a good thing. It’s just that companies like Burton ruined the concept of it.
Fuck the berrics
DWD rules, everything else sucks
dino boards delam and break so quick. put that in your marketing pipe and smoke it.
urathane sidewalls ftw…Ride till i die.
Rubbermaid sidewalls….
hahaha rubbermaid
Dino’s can take a lot beating and have quality construction. I’ve been riding dwd decks for multiply years and have never had an issue. You know your Ride board is made in China…..
i dont care where its made. its held up much longer than my kwon. and i ride 75+ days a year and push my decks to the limit. every ride deck ive owned has lasted a long time
Push it to the limit bro!
capita made
dwd need to stop hooking up kooks end if story
Of*
Brooke do you have an editor? So many your/then/than/you’re mistakes, please just proof read once
All u guys hating on Dino.. go buy burton or something.. get shaun whites pro model… maybe you’ll be happy then.. these guys keep snowboarding fun. If you break your boards easily thats your problem. Dino gets people to the mountain and noticed with the sick graphics. besides boards look more gangster all broken but still being riden i respect that. means people ride hard and dont give a fuck
Dino is legit and owned/run by two dudes who actually give a shit about snowboarding. Can’t really ask for more than that. Not sure why people are getting bent and trying to twist Jeff’s word’s into something negative?
Snowboarding has just gotten too damn expensive for most people to do it a lot. If a lift ticket is $75 dollars, how many 13 year old kids are going to buy more than a few a season? How many kids are going to drop $500 or more on a pass? When I was a kid you could get a day pass for $15 and a season pass for $200. This was in Denver, not that long ago. And why do we think we need the “techest” shit just to ride. I used to ride wool pants and coats from army surplus, duct-taped sorels and OR mitts. My season kit, board included cost probably $300. I looked like a hobo, but had fun anyway. Sure I dreamed of rocking all the neon gore-tex shit the pros had, but there was now way I could make enough to buy that. Next time you see a kid on a wack 10 year old rental Burton wearing jeans and a starter jacket, give that mofo a high five! Show him a secret pow stash! I used to (and still do) give away all my old setups to friends who I knew couldn’t afford gear. I sometimes wish I had some of these old boards back, as they are probably worth something now, but I know they are still being ridden…
The resorts are putting in a bunch of bullshit amenities to justify the price of tickets. Some of this is bullshit for rich people but one big expense is the fancy parks. Did Jamie or Guch come up riding park all day? Fuck no! So part of what is killing the sport is rich a-holes who need heated walkways from the lodge to the lift and smoked duck flatbread pizza in the cafeteria, and part is on snowboarders for demanding crazy-ass parks when we could have just as much fun and progress the sport just as well getting rad on side-hits, cat tracks and DIY log features in the woods…
Kids can’t relate to triple corks. They are rad but to a kid thinking of snowboarding hitting a 70-foot gap does not look fun, it looks scary as fuck!
BTW the ski industry doesn’t give a shit about snowboarding even though we saved their shit in the 80’s. They don’t even make that much running the hills, most of their cash is generated by developing the land around the mountain, and selling condos to rich people.
So no matter how “cool” our marketing is, kids are just not going to be able to afford to ride unless we make shit cheaper. Companies want to flow kids something? Give them a lift ticket and a ride to the mountain. Sponsor a contest with a cheap entry fee that includes two day’s tickets and comes with a t-shirt. Work with cities and towns to make urban parks, that are cheap and fun even if they are sketchy. I realize shit’s business, but if we want to make money by just selling as much stuff as possible to spoiled rich kids and not do more to get more kids (who’s parents aren’t buying their shit) on the hill we and the “industry” need to make the sport more accessible.
Also, old guys are buying plenty of gear without being marketed to. It is a waste of time to market to old guys, we are already hooked for life. Focus on the kids, the young kids who don’t have enough money to buy much (yet). Stickers are cool, but for real flow them a deck or boots or something that helps them actually get out there and snowboard.
Props to Keenen for building a rad brand, nothing but respect for what he is doing. It is the overall ski/snowboard industry making the sport elitist and intimidating. We need to make shit affordable and stop looking down on people who are not “cool” or “good” enough. This may not make money for a whole bunch of people, but it will get more kids stoked to ride. Snowboarding isn’t dead, it was on life support (bullshit sponsor money) and the plug got pulled out. And yet it continues to live. This just shows that we didn’t need that shit anyway.
Love the interview and Jeff’s point of view. DWD are a great company full of heart and soul. Listen to what Jeff is saying because he’s in it and on it. Respect to someone who has been doing it right and still is a decade later. Hate us cause you Anus.
Good shit jeff.
I’M 44 YEARS YOUNG AND I STILL DISSECT MOUNTAINS APART FROM START TO FINISH SEARCHING FOR THE RADDEST LINES POSSIBLE THAT NO ONE ELSE HAS ENVISIONED.